[ Ventilation ] | Abortion

8-28-2015 4:24 pm

David: Abortion

For whatever reason this topic keeps finding me over the past few days. I ignore the desire to comment on Facebook or reddit posts as I know it won't lead anywhere constructive. I've got to hit the release valve though, and where else but here would I lay out a few thoughts?

I struggle with my feelings on abortion, and I find that they vary based upon the situation presented. Whenever I see people discussing the issue, however, I seem to have two choices; hate women enough to strip them of their reproductive rights or completely disregard my belief that a developing fetus is a living proto-human. There isn't a gray area allowed. You're either pro-choice or pro-life, but never pro-letstakethesituationintocontext.

The problem I face is that I believe there are valid reasons for terminating a pregnancy, but I also believe that it is a sanctioned homicide. From a secular viewpoint there's a moral logic hurdle to overcome.

My opinions on some of the common situations I see bandied about: Should a rape victim be forced to carry a resultant pregnancy to term? No. Should a 13 year old girl be forced to upend her entire potential future because she made the poor choice to become impregnated at such an early age? No. Is it fair that the 13 year old boy's future hinges on her decision? No. Should she be back getting another abortion when she's 15. No. Should the woman carrying a baby with defects that will give it little to no quality of life be forced to bring it into the world? No. Should abortion be a form of birth-control. No.

I'm a bit of a strange one if I start thinking about things too hard. I run little thought experiments in my head to try and make myself believe the other side of things. I'm going to list two of those experiments and then bug out before this becomes an essay.

Experiment 1. I don't like you, and I want you dead. Problem is, killing you is illegal. I've invented a time machine, however, and I'm going to use it to travel back to a time when you were in your mother's womb. I'm then going to talk her into having an abortion, as I can be rather persuasive. When I get back to my own time, it will be as if you never existed. Please ignore any paradoxes and focus the morality. Have I or your mother done anything wrong?

Experiment 2. A family has six kids and the wife is pregnant with a seventh. They are struggling financially, and the quality of life is already very low with the current number of children who are malnourished. So the father makes a difficult decision and kills one of the children in their sleep saving them from their horrible living conditions. How does the morality of his act compare with the morality of his wife deciding to have the fetus aborted?

Comments (7)

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

Wow. Heavy stuff for a Friday. Here's my immediate reaction:

In experiment 2 the obvious difference is that the child in question is a conscious being with a fully formed nervous system capable of emotions (fear and love, for instance)and pain. while the fetus is not. In the normal case (when most abortions happen), the fetus is actually only a small clump of cells that isn't really any more complex than a tumor. While the term proto-human may, broadly, be applicable, the term human is only applicable in as much as it would be applicable to a few hundred skin cells. Viewed from a consequentialist perspective, aborting such an early amalgamation of tissue seems to raise no real moral issue that I can imagine.

David - ()

I should have been more specific. The child in experiment 2 was euthanized painlessly in their sleep. From their perspective they went to sleep one last time and never woke up. They never anticipated the act, felt fear or sadness due to it, and felt no pain or discomfort when it was done. Instead of contemplating ways this could have been done, let's just say dad used an instant disintegration ray while the child was fully asleep.

Does this additional information alter your response?

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

Not really. That the child didn't feel pain isn't really the point. The point is that as an actual, fully formed person the child is the sort of being capable of felling pain (or joy, or what have you). I value an actual person over a glob of cells that may have the potentiality to some day become a person.

I think that to get into any serious hand wringing over abortion sort of misses the point that what we are discussing here is a clump of cells. One may be able to make different argumenst if we consider only extremely late term abortions (which are rare). The vast majority of abortions happen in the first few weeks, when nothing like a human has formed. I just don't see an ethical dilemma there.

David - ()

So it's already felt the feelings it's going to feel at that point and loses nothing but the feelings that are in it's future. Roger.

If that clump of cells you keep referring to could become anything other than a human in due course I'd agree with you wholeheartedly. I do agree that most abortions happen at a time when it presents little trouble to my conscience, though I think that you're mistaken on the development cycle and how complex things really are during that first trimester. I won't point to research, because no matter where it comes from I'm sure that the point can be made that it's subjective, but if you have some time to kill and are curious you might just search around a bit and see what you turn up. I personally was surprised to learn from various sources how early in fetal development that the nervous system and brain stem are formed.

It seems to me that we're mostly protecting life that we have an emotional attachment to, not at all pragmatic.

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

I wish you would link to the sources you have read, because I'm very curious. I have studied this issue pretty deeply (though not recently) and found something akin to consensus among the scientific community. That consensus seems to be that 28 weeks is time at which the ability to experience pain develops. Prior to that there isn't what should be considered a functional nervous system. That's third trimester. I don't really think that that can be considered a hard and fast line, but certainly seems like a reasonable guideline as far as I can tell.

As I recall, that data can be found in a JAMA study and many others. Perhaps this has become controversial since I stopped following the subject closely? If so, I would like to see the data and the studies involved.
I'm not suggesting that a 26 week old fetus is without value, I just don't think that it is a person.

David - ()

Here's an easy to digest source to check out: http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/pregnancy-week-by-week/in-depth/prenatal-care/art-20045302

I think we differ in our personal definitions of human life. Yours seems to hinge on whether or not something has the ability to feel pain. Fair enough. Mine goes back a bit further than that. Keep in mind I'm not trying to convince you of my viewpoint, I'm just sharing it.

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

Thank you, I will read that. I'm also not trying to persuade here. Just giving my thoughts on the matter.

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Lyric

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