[ Ventilation ] | On the reading of the most recent post from our friend the Fuzmeister.

David - ()

After reading this post I find that I have many questions. I'll narrow the list down to what I believe would be the most interesting and cooth one.

What exactly does one have to do to earn freedom in your opinion?

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

That was exactly my thought. It seems that a right is, by definition, something that one does not have to earn.

toodldo_4julie - ()

i find myself mostly agreeing w/ the original post. dignity is a thing many do not have today.

the right to have your body hanging out of your clothes is not a right, it's indecent exposure

the right to have no morals is a right, while-metaphorically speaking- walking hand in hand w/ being inhuman.

the right to be undignified is a right, but makes one look uncouth and stupid

freedom of speech protects talking about one's personal life and sexual endeavors, but is inappropriate in public and freedom of speech is abused, if you had children would you want to be standing in a store behind a conversation of that nature?

too many rights are given freely, and too many that should be are forbidden.

David - ()

Edit: I took out the binary translation because it's inability to wrap was screwing up the site layout.

I believe you miss the point of my comment and Nate's as well.

I am certainly not saying that people should act however they please in public, complete with inappropriate conversation and genetalia on full display. One should have to pay good money to view that situation.

To quote the mutated Giraffa camelopardalis: "People who believe they have rights they have not earned."

And myself, "What exactly does one have to do to earn freedom in your opinion?" (One could argue the semantics of freedom vs. rights here, but let's not bother as we all know damn good and well what was meant.)

So you see, it seems to me that Deux Dirigent La Giraffe believes that some people should have more rights than others, based on some sort of point system, presumably. This is the issue I was addressing.

Granted, I'm no ultra-conservative, but I do believe in respecting the rights of others as well. To me that includes keeping my penis safely behind the confines of my trousers, as I'm well aware that others have the right to not have to see it (And how could you miss it!?). I also try not to talk about any lewd sexual acts performed or copious amounts of pharmaceutical substances consumed by myself or others when in front of total strangers.

Another interesting quote: "People who believe they can do whatever they want, again whether they've earned it or not." To me this implies that one can earn the right to do whatever they want, meaning that if I work hard enough I CAN (and without a glaring eye from the judges) do all the stuff in the aforementioned paragraph, and many other things that are too lewd to describe here. (Insert your own joke about me not having earned the right to do so)

Believe me, people have been a'cussin', fucking, smoking, drinking, and running around naked all throughout history. The stories Mr. Giraffe heard were probably written by self-righteous better-than-thous like himself, who have somehow earned the right to judge whether or not others have earned their rights. I postulate that this is acheived through intense bible study and reading lots of old stories.

fuzmeister - (The Real ST)

Yes, indeed my life is rated NC-17. Don't be so upset that some of you aren't allowed to watch it. I get naked in some scenes... I drink and fight and swear and run over little puppies in people's front yards...

Perhaps when I'm feeling more ambitious, I'll actually post a serious response to this post...

Until then, I'll drink my smelly carcass to sleep and smoke some big-ass cigars while I sodomize random things.

2-HeadedGiraffe - (*(..)*)

First of all, let me say that I didn't mean I'm seeing coworkers exposing genitalia. It's more like arms and the occassional stomach or whatever.

I'm not saying, for example, that some people deserve the right of free speech and others don't. I'm all for free speach. The problem is that people don't seem to know what's appropriate to discuss where. Some topics I just feel can't be discussed respectfully in public places. Likewise with clothing...wear whatever you want around your house, so long as decent people who don't want to see your skin don't have to see it. I think mostly my beef with people is that a lot of them don't even seem to try to appear respectable in public, and they don't even seem to realize anyone is upset - dare I say offended? - by their appearance and behavior.

But, yeah. I think people should have to earn the things they have. If you've lived a good life, for example, you deserve to be happy. If you've done terrible things, you don't. I don't. Do you?

Archimago - ()

I have a mosquito bite on my ass, and my urine smells like Sugar Smacks. It doesn't make me happy.

fuzmeister - (The Real ST)

And, what if, your philosophy offends me? (As it may very well do...)

Your point of view is at fault and, therefore, flawed. Besides, how can you place your opinions as the standard for everyone in society? Does that, in fact, mean that you see yourself as superior? Why the negative feelings and inferiority complex then?

There is no order in the chaos we live in. Surely you believe in chaos, don't you? One would almost have to to believe some of the things I know you stand by. But if our existence is so driven by chaos... then why the sudden order? There should exist no order if progress is to continue to take place... people should just be doing whatever they want to do for whoever they want to do it for without any conscious motivation or reasoning whatsoever.

If we truly have been spawned from the chaos, then we are indeed all equal. Why - we all bleed as easily as one another, yes? And we all have finite existences? Yes. Hm... It would seem by that ideology, that no one deserves to live a good life... or, perhaps, we all do. Either way, unless you've got a mind like Hitler or Stalin, you've got no place saying some people deserve more than others. Some people have more than other because they work hard for it - that's how I'd say worthiness is earned.

This point is moot.

David - ()

Moral questions aside...

You say, "People who believe they can do whatever they want, again whether they've earned it or not."

Do you then, therefore, believe that it is possible to earn the right to do whatever you want? If so, who is keeping score? You? Someone else? Where can I get my score? Do I need to take the ratings quiz that spawned all of this? (I only got an "R". fuzmeister is less palatable to a general audience than me!)

I find your view of morality laughable at best ("It's more like arms..." oh dear god, not those!), but it does not pertain to my question about your implied system towards earning rights. I honestly don't give a shit if you're afraid of seeing a stranger's biceps. The larger question went over your head, however, as you saw the word "genetalia" in the second paragraph and your mind locked onto it. Now that I've typed it again I've probably once again lost you, so I shall probably never hear how one is supposed to earn their rights. Unless vague statements about living a good life are your answer, in which case I'm in trouble...

I'm wearing short sleeves.

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

All animals are equal
Some animals are more equal than others

Truth are lies
War is peace
slavery is freedon

2-HeadedGiraffe - (*(..)*)

I think you have a right when someone with enough authority to give it to does so in some sort of official capacity. It all makes sense up here ::taps head::

I just think there needs to be some sort of sociatal basis of morality, and I think it needs to be MUCH stricter than it is now, and perhaps enforced in some way. Not like stonings or whatever they had back in the day, but something.

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

Ah- society inforcing morality. Hester Pryne would love you. You know, when the state and the church meld (which is what happens when the state gets into the business of enforcing someone's view of morality) draconian things happen. You know, like the inquisition.

And while we're on the subject: who gets to define morality. I'm fairly certain that Jestmeister's view of what is morally permissable is quite different from yours. So, which of you gets to decide?

Nathan Tyree - (Overwhelmed by existential angst)

Ah- society inforcing morality. Hester Pryne would love you. You know, when the state and the church meld (which is what happens when the state gets into the business of enforcing someone's view of morality) draconian things happen. You know, like the inquisition.

And while we're on the subject: who gets to define morality. I'm fairly certain that Jestmeister's view of what is morally permissable is quite different from yours. So, which of you gets to decide?

2-HeadedGiraffe - (*(..)*)

Hester Pryne was a whore who got off easy. But y'all are right that it's hard to figure out who would have the right to say. I certainly wouldn't want it to come from a religious source, being that I'm an Atheist and all.

David - ()

"Shame is the one true, pure human emotion."

"People who cuss, drink, and smoke too much, without ever realizing they're doing anything wrong."

"They knew what were virtues and what were vices"

I must say, none of this sounds like atheist talk to me.

2-HeadedGiraffe - (*(..)*)

I believe very strongly in shame, as an emotion that makes us feel bad when we do things that are not acceptable or that are foolish, or whatever. It can exist very well outside of religious circles.

Cussing, drinking and smoking are not morally wrong in my opinion, just stupid. Overuse of profanity just makes you sound vulgar and unintelligent. Drinking and smoking are unhealthy, self-destructive practices. People just do them because they feel good for a while. Feeling good should rarely if ever be a reason to do anything.

Virtue and vice, again, exist very well with or without some supernatural being to tell you which are which. Some of the things religions tend to believe in I agree with. I mean, people created those morals (and attributed them to a higher being) because they were good ideas, in many cases. You don't need a god to tell you not to kill people, for example. Beyond that, it can get into a gray area, of course, but the basic idea remains. Normally, it's "good" to do things that don't hurt others and bad to do things that do. That's how humans function as social animals, by supporting one another.

toodldo_4julie - ()

i agree w/ kyle on some of this last comment, virtues and morals are just there. someone could have a very firm belief in being a good person, but not believe in God. saying that virtues only come from believing in God is like saying that it is not possible to be a good person if not God-fearing, which is an opinionated religious view.

David - ()

I'm glad nobody said that then. ^^

Your account has been disabled.